1/28/2011

The danger of racial riots

In LKY’s book on Hard Truths, he touched on the dangers of racial riots and the Muslim community’s ability to integrate with other communities. These have touched on raw nerves and attracting several replies from across the causeway and from our Malay Community. In cyberspace, Solo bear is putting his views on his interpretation of the issue of race and riots. It is healthy if this issue can be discussed in a rational manner, even in the main stream media, without provoking racial tension and worst, a racial riot. I hope the parties involved could go on discussing for as long as they like and keeping an even keel. Not discussing it openly does not mean that there is no problem. However, discussing them does not mean that the problem can be discussed away. Race and religion are divisive by nature, with each have their own characteristics and beliefs that would want it to be different from others. Some would not want to be compromised by others or worst, insisted that others must be like them. Believing or claiming that race and religion are for harmony and peaceful coexistence is self deception. The seed of division is in every race and religion. It is a me against you kind of mentality. There will be no end to the troubles that can be caused by such divisions in race and religion. They will not go away. LKY is talking about racial riots. Solo bear is talking about riots, any kind of riots. Solo bear takes it that the Malays are somehow identified as the cause of riots but actually the Chinese were involved in most of the riots in Singapore. He quoted the Maria Hertogh riot, the National Service riot, Hock Lee Bus riot, the Chinese student riot, the 1964 and 1969 riots. Of the 6 quoted, 3 were racial riots and 3 were political. The Hock Lee and Chinese student riots were rooted in anti colonial movements. In the absence of colonial masters, they are unlikely to happen again. But anti govt riots could still be possible. What would not go away is the pugnacious racial riot. This is so sensitive and so easily instigated that a fight between two neighbours could ignite into a racial riot if the race element is played up. Even a fight between two commuters in a train can be turned into a racial riot if the flame of race is fanned. We live in a multi racial society and the three major racial groups have a significant presence. At any one time there could be a significant presence of any one of these groups in a location engaging in occupational, cultural or religious activities. Without a forceful govt intervention to ensure peaceful coexistence, the potential for racial dispute is really very high. All races must always bear in mind that avoiding racial dispute or preventing any dispute from becoming racial is vital to the well being of everyone here. What happened in the past, pointing at any one group will only incite anger. No one, even if guilty of racial trespassing, will want to admit guilt of wrong doings. Everyone can judge from the records of history and form his own private and personable opinion and let it stay there. It is pointless to say who was at fault as the guilty party would come up with hundred and one reasons to deflect its action. What is important is to know that racial riots can happen today or tomorrow. Everyone needs to be exceptionally sensitive to avoid such a scenario at all cost.

60 comments:

Anonymous said...

So long as there ARE RELIGIONS, riots and or 'suicide(to kill others) bombings will happen. It is just a matter of time.
When will it happen here? Anybody's guess.
LET'S LIVE AND LET LIVE, PLEASE KEEP YOUR PIETY TO GOD(s) TO YOURSELF!

Anonymous said...

There was a good balance with a majority that is quite well behaved. They came from a stock living with 45 ethnic minorities in China and there were very few incidents of persecutions or riotings against the minorities. The minorities in China were the best treated by the majority Hans, retaining their cultural uniqueness through the centuries.

The balance in this little island is going to be seriously compromised by short sighted and irresponsible admission of highly contentious foreigners that are going to demand everything under the sky. The majority is going to be nicely screwed before you know it.

solo bear said...

redbean,

The five Chinese riots were race based and not just political. This was the Lim Chin Siong era. He used the Chinese masses and linked "Mother China" to oust the Brits. Because of this, only the Chinese were involved in the NS, Hock Lee, Chinese Mid Sch riots.

The above riots were race instigated and the theme was a "Chinese Spore vs Anglo Brit". To claim that those Chinese based riots were solely politically motivated, is a misrepresentation of a historical fact - something LKY and our schools have been perpetuating.

As Maria Hertogh, the issue was against the Brits. There is an element of religion of course, because Islam was involved. But by and large the instigation came from the Indian Muslim community, rather than from the Malays.

As for 1964 race riots, I have explained in my blog that there were other elements involved. Elements like internal instigation from PAP, or external interference from Indonesia, targetting Msia, and Spore, being part of Msia, got caught.

As for 1969 riots, that riot originated from Msia and spilled over to Spore.

My point is that it is very clear that five of the six major riots were Chinese based, with the theme of preserving "Chineseness", linking Motherland China against Brits. If that is not race based, what is it?

Why then PAP has been so silent about Chinese race riots?

As for the Malay riots, Hertogh and 1964 had other elements - just like the Chinese based riots. Why PAP harp on race only this time?

As for 1969, that didn't even start in Spore. It was a spillover.

Strictly speaking, the Chinese had five race based riots, on top of considering three of them political based. Why is PAP so afraid to admit that the Chinese used the race card to riot?

To say that the colonial powers is over and hence no need to fear Chinese riots is a fallacy. Remember the Indon riots where some Chinese put up fake rape photos of Chinese girls raped? It turned out the photos were taken from a porn site to create hate against Indon Malays!

So even today, we need to fear the rise of Chinese chauvinism, if you want to talk about race riots!

If at all, I say that there is a bigger threat from some Chinese groups to provoke race riots than from the Malays. If you note, it is LKY, the biggest Chinese chauvinist, who keeps harping the race card over and over!

So for all the claims that riots are are reminder that we are among "a sea of Malays out to get us", it actually is all about LKY's racist trump card to be played over and over, so that the Chinese here will fear the Malay Bogeyman there.

For those who are wondering what redbean is discussing, here is the article I wrote -
History of Riots in Singapore - LKY's racist version has to be stopped

Anonymous said...

Hi, Chin Siong was Chinese educated and leading the Chinese students was expected. One impt pt, he did not lead the Chinese students to attack and kill Malays. The 2 racial riots were Malays killing Chinese spilling over from Malaysia.

Indonesian and Malays killing Chinese were facts that you can't denied. They are dangerous racial extremists. You can't hide their racist killings by pointing the fingers at the Chinese. The Chinese in Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore were the victims.

Your are trying to prove falsehood.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi solo bear,

I agree with anon 3:10. The riots involving the Chinese were politically motivated and definitely not racially motivated.

The conclusion that you drawn did not hold any water as far as racial riots are concerned. The Chinese have been the victims of racial riots and not the instigator or the starter of racial riots.

I strongly disagree with your conclusion. It is the other way round. Sorry that I have to say this. You are interpreting facts to suit your views. In this case your effort is not convincing.

Anonymous said...

"My point is that it is very clear that five of the six major riots were Chinese based, with the theme of preserving "Chineseness", linking Motherland China against Brits. If that is not race based, what is it?", unquote.

Indeed, Singaporean Chinese were helping Mainland Chinese for a better China since Sun Yat Sen days or even earlier when Chinese migrants sent back all the money they made oversea back to their families in China. Any Race in the World would be doing the same, past, present and future. The only exception will be those that cut themselves off from their families living elsewhere.

The Singaporean Chinese during Chin Siong's time according to Solo Bear were fighting the Brits. And surely there must also be Malays who did the same because the Brits were invaders despite their non-violent takeover.

It cannot be denied that Religion and Race are inherently divisive and may I say that whilst Race is a creation of Nature, Religion is a manmade element. Religion is a tool create by mankind to serve its' creators' and followers' personal agenda. No offence to others if religious practitioners keep their Faiths to themselves, unfortunately they are too eager to convince others of their religious pieties which may not be pleasant to others of different Beliefs.

Singaporeans have had many decades of peaceful co-existence and we should do our best to maintain this peace for the good of everybody.

May we all play our role in peace making by keeping our religious piety to ourselves.

Anonymous said...

Wat solobear is trying to do is to claim that the Chinese were racist and the racist were not racist.

fyi, in the 50s and pre independence Singapore, the Chinese were Chinese Nationals and loyalty to China was patriotism. But once they became Singaporeans, tho emotional links still there, Singapore became home. So were the Chinese in Malaysia and Indonesia. It was the racist regimes there that refused to give them citizenships.

There was nothing racist in the earlier anti British and pro China riots. They were Chinese then.

One most important pt. They were not racists to the extent of starting racial riots to attack and kill another because of race.

Only racists did this kind of riotings.

solo bear said...

>>Hi, Chin Siong was Chinese educated and leading the Chinese students was expected.
>>

CS could speak English very fluently. He chose to speak Chinese because he wanted to rev up Chinese base support. His violent demos were based on the "Singapore is Chinese" theme.

>>One impt pt, he did not lead the Chinese students to attack and kill Malays.
>>

He led the Chinese to attack (and they even killed) pro-Brits. You mean pro-Brit lives don't count as much as Chinese lives? Eh?

>>The 2 racial riots were Malays killing Chinese spilling over from Malaysia.
>>

Don't deny the truth. There were also Malay deaths because Chinese killed them.

>>Indonesian and Malays killing Chinese were facts that you can't denied.
>>

What you cannot deny also is that the riot was against businessmen. Food prices skyrocketed. The riot was about villagers against those businessmen.

It is some Chinese groups who portrayed it as Malays vs Chinese, to whip up the race card.

Very malicious intent indeed, noting that fake rape pictures were put up.

>>Indeed, Singaporean Chinese were helping Mainland Chinese for a better China since Sun Yat Sen days....
>>

I find it strange that when a Chinese says that, it is acceptable. Yet, when a Malay said that about his "motherland", that's extremism!

>>The Singaporean Chinese during Chin Siong's time according to Solo Bear were fighting the Brits. And surely there must also be Malays who did the same because the Brits were invaders despite their non-violent takeover.
>>

The difference is that the Malays were non-violent against the Brits. Even when they don't like the Brits, they still work for them in the civil service.

The Chinese (who rioted) on the other hand were very violent against the Brits. Public property damaged, lives lost etc. If that is not violence, what is it?

And of course, during the Malay-Chinese riots, both were violent against each other. Violence begets violence.


===

redbean:
>>The riots involving the Chinese were politically motivated and definitely not racially motivated.
>>

CS used the "we are Chinese and must align to China" as the ideal against the Anglo govt. What no race?

>>The conclusion that you drawn did not hold any water as far as racial riots are concerned. The Chinese have been the victims of racial riots and not the instigator or the starter of racial riots.
>>

I see that you have been brainwashed by the PAP. Don't blame you. You are an ex-civil servant.

>>Wat solobear is trying to do is to claim that the Chinese were racist and the racist were not racist.
>>

Don't put words into my mouth, just because you cannot rebut my points. I said that LKY is a racist and the SOME Chinese chauvinists are the same.

>>There was nothing racist in the earlier anti British and pro China riots.
>>

CS got them to riot against Brit because he said the Chinese must be loyal to China. Isn't that racist?

My main point is that LKY up-plays the Malay riots and downplay the Chinese ones. My point is also that he has brainwashed many with that.

Your insistence that the riots are all about Malay riots and none on Chinese, when I have shown you otherwise, confirms my point on the brainwashing.

And yes, I agree that race and religion are very sensitive topics.

Note how the Chinese here get so defensive when I showed that the Chinese are not angels either. Btw, I am a Chinese myself.

Anonymous said...

To Solo Bear:
me believes You're a Chinese by Race and me too. Years ago whence me read your literatures, me was and is of the opinion that You're very much an idealistic person.

In my view, You're adopting the World citizen stance, You identify yourself as a human being like all others albeit You're religiously biased. May I presume that You are a staunch Muslim? Allow me to review that me am an atheist. Me born into a traditional Chinese Family that embraces Taoism and my Mother made me a god son to a deity because I was sickly before the age of ten. However, me gave myself an option of atheism to start with, with the purpose to understand religions first before accepting any. At six decades old, me has yet to find one(religion) that me could honestly embraces. Frankly, me has much reservation and misgiving of all Faith.

The most discomforting aspect of religions to me are the beliefs in supernaturals follow by the many religious wars due to holy wars waged by two major religions. They had caused limitless damages to live(life) and the wellbeings of the World. How would any sensible human being accept such destruction to happen? As if the natural differences in cultures are not causes of many unneccessary conflicts, the intelligent human species have to add fuel to the carnage, what kind of thinking being is human?

Me does not mean to be personal, Me had been participating in your blogs for sometimes and the impression me has of You is that You are a carbon copy of MM Lee K Y. That is; the kettle calling the pot black and vice versa.

Me has great respect for your sense for justice, however for justice to prevail, one has to be non-bias. Me does not know how to convince You, however do allow me to disclose that me am the only atheist in a family comprises of Taoists, Buddhists, Christians and Muslims, a kind of united nation of sort for religions and we are at peace and happy to be one big family.

Let me say that as the head in the family, me the atheist plays a very vital role in the cohesiveness of the big family.

Wish You a very happy Lunar New Year and many to follow.

Yours Truly: patriot

solo bear said...

>>me believes You're a Chinese by Race and me too.
>>

Me believes your fake writing style gives you away.

>>Years ago whence me read your literatures, me was and is of the opinion that You're very much an idealistic person.
>>

Me blog only opened to public around Aware saga. That's not many years ago. Before that, me blog was private.

So whence you say you read me blog years ago, me knows you fake.

>>In my view, You're adopting the World citizen stance, You identify yourself as a human being like all others albeit You're religiously biased.
>>

Me thinks you adopt world cyberstance view, lurking around blogs to create fake characters.

>>May I presume that You are a staunch Muslim?
>>

No. Absolutely not. You may not presume anything about me.

>>Allow me to review that me am an atheist.
>>

Allow me to let you know that no one is interested in that. Stick to LKY and his racist version of riots in Singapore.

>>At six decades old, me has yet to find one(religion) that me could honestly embraces.
>>

Weeks ago, you 31 years old post graduate student. Today you 60 year old Ah Kong. You have stumbled upon a time machine that could make you win a Nobel Prize. Go work on your research and stop wasting your time here, doc.

>>Me does not mean to be personal, Me had been participating in your blogs for sometimes and the impression me has of You is that You are a carbon copy of MM Lee K Y. That is; the kettle calling the pot black and vice versa.
>>

Me thinks it is rude to use redbean's blog to take out on me. Why don't you post your long winded Ah Kong story in my blog instead?

Oh yes, I forgot Google banned you in my blog - even when you post as Anon!

Here's a tip - stop posting links just to spam.

>>Me has great respect for your sense for justice,
>>

Unfortunately, me cannot return same compliment to you.

>>however for justice to prevail, one has to be non-bias.
>>

Me thinks you are a Malay hater and you are not non-bias. Practise what you preach.

>>Wish You a very happy Lunar New Year and many to follow.
>>

Same to you, doc.

Oh ya, no one writes or speaks the kind of style you do. Even Ah Kongs.

Want to bluff ohso dunno how to bluff.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi all, I can already feel the tension when such a topic is on the table. Let's not get personal and let's be objective.

Hi Solo Bear,

The Chinese student riots and the early part of Chin Siong were in the era of colonialism. And the Chinese here were Chinese nationals, not Singaporeans. Singapore was a British colony. The word Singaporeans or Singapore citizens don't mean anything then.

You must be able to differentiate between nationalism and racism. The Chinese then could be from any country and they will protest, riot and fight the British for the same reason, anti colonialism and nationalism.

You are lumping racism with nationalism.

The anti Chinese riots and killings and rapings were facts. You keep denying and claiming that one photo was faked. It can be faked all the way from the source who wanted to prove that it was fake. The killings and rapings and lootings, burning of Chinese shops and houses were true. You may want to insist that they were not because one photo is enough to prove your truth.

It was 'pai hua', you understand what these two words mean?

As for LKY or any Chinese to be more chauvinistic or have pro Chinese biases, that is normal as long as the feeling is not against another race. To be proud of one's own race is a natural thing and respectable.

I honestly despise anyone who cannot feel proud of his own race and culture, be he Chinese, Indian or Malay. A person is born what he is and to despise his own identity is despicable.

I praise nationalists, be they Malay, Indian or Chinese or of any race. They are fighting for their own people. But when nationalists turn racists, that is a different story. They become racists. Period.

The nationalists of the anti colonial era are the heros of all the colonised countries, from Latin America, Africa to Asia. All countries need nationalists to fight for their independence or they will remain as subjects of foreign countries.

The Indians and Indonesians fought bloody battles against the Brits and Dutch. You call them racists too, like you call Chin Siong and the Chinese students?

See the difference I am trying to make?

solo bear said...

redbean,

As pointed out in my article in my blog, there are many versions as to what happened and why they happened. I also said that I do not wish to put up links because I do not want to show favour for one version over another.

Your version is the LKY version. Others quote other versions. There's no end to who is right or wrong. But my point is not that.

My point is not whose version is right. My points is consistency.

Like why is LKY claiming 1964, 1969 as race riots, when there are political elements in them. Yet, the downplay of the racist element in the Chinese riots!

Your insistence that 1964, 1969 are solely race and not about governance, while at the same time saying the Chinese riots are all political and no race element, is the exact carbon copy of LKY's racist version.

Where is the consistency in application?

All of those riots have an element of race AND politics.

Yet when it comes to 1964, 1969, it is about race (read as Malay riots although Chinese were also involved!), and when it comes to the Chinese riots, it about politics and not race.


Why the inconsistency? Isn't this brainwashing?


>>The anti Chinese riots and killings and rapings were facts.
>>

So were the killings of Malays by Chinese in 1964 and 1969! Why only quote Malays killing Chinese?

Chinese lives more valuable than Malays?

>>You keep denying and claiming that one photo was faked.
>>

There were a SERIES of fake photos pertaining to the Indon riots. Let's not deny that.

>>It can be faked all the way from the source who wanted to prove that it was fake.
>>

It does not matter where the source came from.

The important point is that a group of Chinese capitalized on those fakes to whip up anti-Malay feelings.

Instead of condemning the fakes, this group optimized the fake photos! What malice!

>>The killings and rapings and lootings, burning of Chinese shops and houses were true.
>>

So is the fact that a group of Chinese used this event to create anti-Malay feelings!

>>You may want to insist that they were not because one photo is enough to prove your truth.
>>

One fake photo (actually a series of fakes) does not prove it did not happen. But one incident of a group of Chinese creating a scenario to whip up anti-Malay sentiment proves that your claim the Chinese will not be able to whip up riots is false.

The Indon riot was an economic one. Note how a group of Chinese keep insisting it is about race - so that they could create animosity against Malays.

Isn't this the very LKY-like approach of whipping the race card, even though it is about economics?

I have shown you even after the colonial times, it is more likely the Chinese, rather than Malays who are more willing to whip up the race card to create animosity.

This repetitive stance of Indon riots is a race issue, when it is an economic issue is proof of my claim!

>>As for LKY or any Chinese to be more chauvinistic or have pro Chinese biases, that is normal as long as the feeling is not against another race. To be proud of one's own race is a natural thing and respectable.
>>

Again, I find it strange when a Chinese says that, it is acceptable. But when a Malay says that, it is extremism.

Where is the consistency?

>>I honestly despise anyone who cannot feel proud of his own race and culture, be he Chinese, Indian or Malay.
>>

But the Malays are derided if they show pride in their culture and beliefs!

I am not saying who is racist and who is not. Probably all are.

My main point is CONSISTENCY.

You cannot claim that the Malays are racists and the Chinese are not, when both parties did the exact same thing, for the exact same purpose - using race to incite riots to dislodge a govt.

Let's see some consistency here.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Solo Bear,

My view is not LKY's view. I was and am a student of history. A Chinese chauvinist would not close down Nantah.

Agreed that all the riots have political elements and causes. But why the other riots did not turn to racial killings? The racist elements in the 1964 and 1969 riotings were very prominent.

Oh some Malays were killed, and maybe some Indons were killed. But would you agree that the Chinese when attacked, have a right to self defence and even hit back? The cases in Malaysia and Indonesia were more of a one sided killing with the govt involved, with soldiers and police killing the innocent Chinese as well.

You don't get this kind of racism in Singapore. If LKY is a racist, or his govt is a racist govt, there could be many wild killings like in Malaysia and Indonesia.

There must be some balance especially from people in leadership position. I am not defending LKY but historial facts.

The hard truths are difficult to air and difficult to swallow. Talking about them is very brave and I believe LKY did not talk about them to agitate or incite anyone. His purpose is for our generation and future generations to understand the dangers of race and religion and hopefully learn from them and be wiser.

From how things are developing, you can see that people are reacting negatively and taking positions instead of trying to understand how best to avoid them.

We are still very far from maturity as people of the 21st century. Still being ruled by the heart and primordial instincts of race and religion.

Anonymous said...

Hi Solo Bear;
your response to me are noted.
Me has been at your blogs and will continue to visit them.
Hope You do welcome me.

Cheers!

patriot

Matilah_Singapura said...

There is nothng quite like a good old-fashioned race or religious riot to remind the rest of humanity that in many cuntries -- many of them which masquerade as Furst Wurld Cuntries -- the collective mentality is till tribal, and it only takes a bit of coaxing to resurrect suppressed feelings of mitrust, racil and religious hatred.

I would very would very much hope for a violent riot or two in Singapore -- that would be first class world news, and would light up the internet bigger than Julian Assange's murder.

If Lee Kuan Yew says there could be riots, patriotic Singaporeans should give the man some face and actually start a few...and don't hold back nor show any mercy for the "enemy".

So what are you fuckers waiting for?

solo bear said...

redbean:
>>My view is not LKY's view. I was and am a student of history.
>>

But that history you learned is LKY's version! If it is not, it would not have been in your syllabus!

>>A Chinese chauvinist would not close down Nantah.
>>

You read me wrong. LKY is not a Chinese chauvinist. Chin Siong was. LKY is a RACIST.

LKY is a double headed snake. When CS was around, he played to be the Anglo-phile. After CS was gone, he played the very race card CS played.

LKY is never a Chinese chauvinist. He is a Malay-phobe. He simply plays to the Chinese gallery, hoping to stir emotions in them, that Malays are bad.

>>The racist elements in the 1964 and 1969 riotings were very prominent.
>>

So were the Chinese riots. The theme played up by CS is that the Chinese must align to Motherland China and not let the Brits rule.

>>Oh some Malays were killed, and maybe some Indons were killed. But would you agree that the Chinese when attacked, have a right to self defence and even hit back?
>>

Is that your LKY version? If I am not mistaken, the Msia version is that it was started by Singapore agents.

>>The cases in Malaysia and Indonesia were more of a one sided killing with the govt involved, with soldiers and police killing the innocent Chinese as well.
>>

I see you are still stuck in the LKY version. If you want it to be racial, you see it racial. Are saying there is absolutely no political element in those riots at all?

Just like you are saying there is no racial element in those Chinese riots?

>>You don't get this kind of racism in Singapore.
>>

Of course not. You don't get to see Msia or Indon govt keep repeating the Chinese are this or that. Only in Sg do you see the PAP saying the Malays are this and that!

>>If LKY is a racist, or his govt is a racist govt, there could be many wild killings like in Malaysia and Indonesia.
>>

LKY's version again.

>>There must be some balance especially from people in leadership position. I am not defending LKY but historial facts.
>>

You are parroting his version.

>>The hard truths are difficult to air and difficult to swallow.
>>

Agreed. I see you cannot accept that there are more Chinese instigated riots than Malay ones.

My bottom line is CONSISTENCY.

You cannot say that the Chinese riots are not race based but the 1964 but 1969 are, when those riots were instigated by agents doing the exact thing for the exact same purpose - using race in an attempt to bring down a govt.

=====

Patriot, you are welcome to continue to post in my site as what you have done in the past. My advice to you is if you do not want Google to bar you, stop spamming with links.

Also, pls stick to just one nick.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Just one simple question Solo Bear, are you who you said you are?

solo bear said...

redbean,

Yes I am who I say I am. Unlike a "patriotic" poster in this thread, who is actually a spammer who has also spammed some of your sites.

Is my race or citizenship an issue?

Are you having a problem that a Chinese Singaporean does not believe what LKY has lied to us about the Malays around us?

If you have a problem accepting a fellow Chinese Singaporean rejecting the false claim about our Malay neighbours, have you not confirmed my point that Singaporeans have been brainwashed by LKY (that we are supposed to fear our Malay neighbours)?

If you have no problem accepting a fellow Chinese Singaporean rejecting the false claim about our Malay neighbours, why is my race and/or citizenship an issue with you?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Solo Bear,

Thank you for replying to may simple question. I asked because of what you claimed to be. And it is an issue because of what you claimed. Otherwise I would not bother. Everyone is entitled to his opinions and views of things.

We write and share our views with everyone who reads our posts. Who we are, what we are, our motivation, our agenda, our objectivity and biases are all written in our posts. The more we write the more we exposed ourselves.

This is another form of hard truths. Everyone can use a nick and claim anything. I judge a person by his words and his acts: )

From their writings, you can pin point where they are coming from.

solo bear said...

redbean,

Thanks for your clarification on the need to know my race and/or citizenship. This now opens the following issues.

1. Now that I have made it clear I am a Chinese Singaporean, are you able to accept that there are fellow Chinese Sgreans who do not buy the "Malays are out to get us" argument?

2. If you judge a person's post because of his background, won't you also be opened to the same judgement? Hence, if my views were to be weakened, had I been a Malay Malaysian instead, won't it now make YOUR VIEWS less credible, noting the fact that you have been a history student of Nantah, and hence, your views are of course bias towards LKY's version?

If yes, have not your own criteria defeated all your previous arguments?

If no, your background does not weaken your argument, why then did you use the "background check" on me in the first place? It wouldn't have weakened my arguments too, no?

3. If the "background of the person" can weaken his arguments, won't that weaken LKY's views as well, because he always had (and still has) an agenda against Malaysia's leaders?

We are always quick to judge others. But in the process, we forget that the very yardstick we use to judge others, can also be used on ourselves.

This is the exact reason why I did not put up links on the riots, because if I did, I would be seen as favouring one version over another. I have instead given an overall picture of what those riots are about.

Generally, all demos and riots always have an element of politics in them. To say that the 1964 and 1969 riots are solely race riots is to deny that there is a political element in it.

Likewise, to say that the Chinese riots are solely political, is to deny that there is a race element in it.

It makes sense that you link a person's background to check if there is a "hidden agenda". But I have shown you that I have none. I am simply putting up the facts as they are. The facts are that:

a) There is more than one version pertaining to the riots.

b) All of the riots had the same goal and method - using race to whip up sentiment to dislodge the govt.

To me, bottom line is consistency. I respect your need to my know background. But to me, consistency in application is more important.

After all, race, culture and citizenship are just constructs of humankind. To me, there is only one race - the Human Race. But there are many cultures you can choose to live by, or not to live by.

In the end, I find all this propaganda by LKY that "we should fear the sea of Malays around us" is just a figment of imagination in his mind. An imagination he would like to drill into the Chinese Singaporeans.

Fortunately, from my experience, only a small group of Chinese Singaporeans are buying that. The majority of the Chinese, like the other races, see it as race race politics played by the Old Man.

If you are not convinced, you can check on the internet and see for yourself how many Chinese Sgreans out there are now deriding the Old Man for his latest racist remarks on Malays/Muslims.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Frankly and honestly, I don't believe that you are a Chinese. But I will not dispute with you for saying so and I take it at face value.

At this point, just take it that I am not convinced until proven otherwise: )

solo bear said...

redbean:
>>Frankly and honestly, I don't believe that you are a Chinese.
>>

And that's because you cannot accept a Chinese (Singaporean) who does not accept LKY's propaganda lie that we must fear the Malays around us?

>>But I will not dispute with you for saying so and I take it at face value.
At this point, just take it that I am not convinced until proven otherwise: )
>>

There is nothing to convince you. In any case, since you asked about my background, I am a Straits born Chinese.

Yes, I know some Chinese would not see that as me being "truly Chinese" - hence, reinforcing my point about their chauvinism even deeper.

The Chinese race is very diverse. Han is the majority. But there are many ethnic minorities.

Being an ethnic Chinese minority within a majority Chinese puts me in a position where I am both the majority and minority at the same time. Hence, I am able to see what it is like being a majority Chinese, as well what it is like being an ethnic minority Chinese within a majority.

Below is my view on what I see as an over-bearing Han majority, trying to wipe out ethnic Chinese minority cultures and lifestyle - right here in Spore. Note that I am not even talking about how the majority Chinese are overwhelming the minority races. I am talking about how a majority sect within the Chinese race, trying to promote its own culture, wiping out other minority Chinese cultures in the process. I hope you would put a thought to what the Han majority are doing to the ethnic minority Chinese, let alone doing to minority races.
PAP's Racist MT Policy, Part 2 - PAP is forcing Han Culture, not Chinese Culture, on us

Of course you can choose to believe I am a non-Chinese, pretending to be an ethnic Chinese minority.

Here's another article I wrote (tongue-in-cheek) about promoting one specific Chinese Culture, at the expense of other Chinese cultures.
Let's promote Hokkien and ditch the other Dialects

Matilah_Singapura said...

At the end of the day, "culture" is a body of commonly-held ideas which form the basis of frameworks and structures for large groups of individuals to exist as societies and communities.

Ideas -- especially those which oppose each other -- tend to be locked in "battle for supremacy" and eventually weaker cultures get "wiped out" or assimilated (but dominated) by so-called stronger, more influential culture(s).

Societies or groups don't have ideas. Ideas are for individuals. So it comes down to individual behaviour first, then as a collective.

For e.g. Han IS the dominant Chinese culture, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Not even the glorious UN with their fancy, laughable, impossible theories of "multi-culturalism" -- which has generally failed every where its been tried.

No one "race" or "species" or culture or body of ideas is so sacred or "special" that it requires "preserving" or "protection". If good ideas cannot stand on their own merits, then they too will disappear.

A good example is Australia: see the guilty white fuckers tax the shit out of everyone just to try to sustain an ancient, superstitious and generally stupid undeveloped culture of the Aborigines. They never had one engineer, scientist or notable in any field which requires the use of reason -- man's fundamental tool for survival. And thus the Aboriginal was essentially "conquered". Too fucking bad -- why tax us to fund these unsustainable idiots?

Having societies embracing 100% good ideas and thus having a "pure" culture is boring. Human beings are interesting because they have to make choices - and often they make patently wrong choices.

Therefore societies -- on the whole - which choose really FUCKED UP ideas (all done so at the individual level, all together) are definitely more entertaining.

Anonymous said...

The Patriot who tried to give the Bear a hug here must be a gongkia(fool), he/she fails to understand that all bears are wild.
The only people who know how to deal with bears are bear hunters and they dont talk to bears or hug the bears.
It also appeared to me that this so-called patriot does not have the intellect and substance to spam blogsites such as My Singapore News or any others. The comments made so far did not seem to come from someone educated. If he/she gets a bear hug, he/she must be able to stand the brute force of the hugs and stench of the bear breaths.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The Han or Han culture in China is not a homogenous culture. It apparently looks so all because the Chin Emperor several centuries ago did the unthinkable, burning all different forms of scripts and allowing one form to become the official written language.

Without that ruthless enforcement, there will be as many Han tribes as the 46 minority tribes in China. The Cantonese, Hokien, Hakka, Hainanese, Teochew, Hunanese, Sichuanese, Shanghainese etc etc are nothing more different from the Vietnamese or for that matter the Koreans. They are all tribes of China and probably of the Han stock.

The unification or division of tribes have their pros and cons. What would China be if all the tribes/dialects were still living in their own little cultural corners? China will be like India as far as the diversity of tribes, languages and culture are concerned, very rich cultural but a mess to govern. China may need to use English as a common medium to communicate across the country.

Till today, the different dialect groups have their own chauvinists who wanted to preserve and revive their own identities. But the battle is lost as this little rock is concerned.

Societies will evolve and the more progressive culture will survive and dominate over the less progressive culture. The European culture at the moment is the dominant culture and people of the world are gravitating towards it.

On the other hand, the lesser cultures are resisting and fighting fiercely to retain their identity.

Life will be less traumatic and people will be less quarrelsome or at least have lesser issues to fight if everyone is of the same colour and speak the same language, like in heaven.

Just blame the creator for the mess we are in. Or looking at it in another way, more fun, more anger, and more hatred because of all the differences in race and religion.

Anonymous said...

Agree with anon916 that cmmenter patriot is in for a mauling by the bear. This one had much encounter with beans and is not a simple one confine to the wild.

Read many comments posted by patriot in TOC, here and elsewhere. They were not frivolous. Much of the writings were candid, non vulgar and not extreme, though lack depth.

Hi patriot, remember you are not relating to a caged or tamed bear.

Anonymous said...

It is a lonely(solo) bear so cannot be very friendly one.

Anonymous said...

A wild bear indeed.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Let me test Solo Bear to see how tolerant or intolerant he is.

Hi Solo Bear,

If I were to say relax, be more flexible, and people will find it easier to makan with you or it would also make it easier for yourself to mix with others.

Would you go into a rage and claim that I am insulting you or imposing my views on you, or would you take it as a friendly advice or suggestion and whether you agree or disagree or want to accept the advice is all up to you?

Or would you react in such a way that I am violating into your principles and beliefs and I must apologise to you because you are deeply hurt?

Incidentally I used to tell my friends or colleagues to relax and take things easier when they are feeling the heat.

solo bear said...

redbean,

I never had any problems with anyone eating with me or beside me. What is your point?

In all my life, the only place I see Muslims eating away from non-Muslims is in the SAF cookhouse. All other places, be it at work, in public eating houses etc, they eat beside each other.

I cannot speak for Muslims who do find it repulsive to sit beside those who eat pork, but I can empathize such Muslims.

Imagine you have rat-meat eaters (which I am sure many find rat meat repulsive) eating rat-meat and sitting right beside you with the fresh red, red rat meat smell strongly present, and you are having your favourite char kuay teow.

What now?

How many people can swallow that char kuay teow?

What if I said that those who can't and choose to sit away from the rat-meat eaters intolerant when they eat?


Sometimes you should not judge a person by your own bias standards.

Sometimes you need to put yourself into the person's shoes to understand him.

In the end, tolerance is both ways.

How about testing your tolerance now?

Can you accept that there are Chinese Singaporeans, who do not share "Chinese values" with you, because these Chinese feel their own cultures have been eroded due to the Han majority?

If yes, why do you doubt I am a Chinese?

If no, isn't that intolerance itself?


PS - For MM (or anyone else) to think that Muslims don't eat beside Muslims, I will say he is out of touch. Such Muslims are such a minority, it is like you have touched lottery if you get to see one.

In other words, MM (or that person) is the intolerant one, because he has not been mixing around with Muslims to know that Muslims and non-Muslims eating beside each other is not an issue.

Did you know that it's a non-issue? Or are you as intolerant as MM?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Solo Bear,

I am not talking about tolerance to eat with someone that is eating something you are displeased with.

I asking how you would react if someone ask you to relax a bit, mix around more. Is that so offensive that you would take it as an attack to your goodself or your group?

Oh, you are still flying the banner that you are a Chinese. You sure have very strong interest in Palestinians and very anti LKY for his views on other races. And you are so disturb by it that you take it personally to discredit him by calling him racist on every opportunity that you get.

I am still trying to understand your motivation as a 'Chinese' to have such strong views on these things.

I am wondering how many readers here believe that you are a Chinese as you claimed. I have my doubts. But I am not forcing you to prove anything. I respect your privacy.

solo bear said...

>>I asking how you would react if someone ask you to relax a bit, mix around more. Is that so offensive that you would take it as an attack to your goodself or your group?
>>

Absolutely nothing offensive at all. What is your point? What has that got to do with my take on LKY's racist stance?

>>Oh, you are still flying the banner that you are a Chinese.
>>

That's because you make my race an issue. You seem to want to discredit all I have said based on what you believe my race to be - or not to be.

I was not the one who's touchy about race. In fact, I said that if you want to use race, all your points about you being a Nantah history grad will only confirm your bias towards LKY's version.

>>You sure have very strong interest in Palestinians and very anti LKY for his views on other races.
>>

So? Are you trying to profile a person who is interested in Palestinian affairs and anti-LKY as not Chinese?

I have also shown support for China, when it comes to the North/South Korean issue. I have shown support for China's stance that the China mainland - Taiwan dispute is an internal affairs the US should not interfere.

Will somebody who is pro-America now discredit my arguments because they say I am Chinese, hence I support China?

>>And you are so disturb by it that you take it personally to discredit him by calling him racist on every opportunity that you get.
>>

Yes, I am disturbed that one of my key ministers is a racist. You should be too! Why are you not?

>>I am still trying to understand your motivation as a 'Chinese' to have such strong views on these things.
>>

There you have it again! You are the one stuck with the race thingy! So what if a Chinese has views on Palestine?

You didn't question my views when I showed strong support for China in the N/S Korea dispute, did you? That's because that is what how a Chinese should behave? Only interested in Chinese affairs and not give a hoot on non-Chinese affairs? Isn't that (Chinese) chauvinism?

>>I am wondering how many readers here believe that you are a Chinese as you claimed.
>>

You are the first person not only to believe I am not Chinese, you are also the first person who make it a point to try to understand why would a Chinese be so interested in Mid East affairs. All other people take it just as it is, when I said I am Chinese, and carried on the discussion.

Strangely enough, you never made it an issue when I showed support for China in the N/S Korea dispute. I suppose that's because to you, "that's how a Chinese should behave"!

You also never made it an issue when I, as an ethnic Chinese minority, lambasted the Han majority for wiping out ethnic Chinese minority cultures.

But when I lambast LKY from an "non-Chinese" angle, suddenly my race becomes an issue!

Why are YOU so uptight about race?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Relax Solo Bear,

No need to get so excited over an intercourse. Or are you feeling so heated up because we don't see the issue from the same perspective? You must be able to hold a discussion rationally and objectively without getting emotional and allowing your primordial instinct to get the upper hand on you.

I did not raise the issue of whether you are a Chinese or not a Chinese. I don't ask anyone about his background.

You are the one who emphasised that you are a Chinese. You raised the issue of your identity to support your views. By doing so, you are putting it up as an issue.

Not me ok..

And since you claimed to be a Chinese to reinforce your position, I am telling you that I am doubtful of what you claim you are. And with every statement you posted, it revealed more of who you really are.

I can't understand your emotions. I am trying to engage you in a discussion calmly without emotions. I hope it is not difficult for you to do likewise.

Even Patriot, from your strong replies, he never loses his cool. That tells a lot about the two of you.

Seriously, with due respect to you, I still have my doubts on who you claim you are. Just my personal reading. Not the govt's view. I am not from the govt : )

You are not going to ask me to apologise for not agreeing with you would you?

Anonymous said...

Hohohoho, Mr Bean, this bear is saying you are uptight. Think he is the one that is very very uptight, very very hot. his true colour is out.hohohoho.

solo bear said...

redbean,

I mentioned my race once. It is YOU who keep bringing it up after that.

As for patriot, that is a common nick. Don't think he is the same patriot somewhere else. He is the spammer you hated in your blog and forum site.

We need to close the race issue here.

Here is my piece on what I think of chauvinistic Han Chinese who think that I, an ethnic minority Chinese, should behave only in a certain way Chinese should behave.

Chinese discriminating Chinese

Any further post in this thread by me will be solely on LKY's racist stance - not yours.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Solo Bear,

Just browse through your blog from the link you provided.

I don't agree with your interpretation of Han Chinese and Han Chinese culure. The Han Chinese is a general term for all the dialect groups other than the minorities like the uigher, mongolians, manchus, miaos, yi etc etc. The Hokiens, Teochews, Cantonese, Kheks etc etc are Han Chinese. If you are a Hokien, you are a Han and not a minority tribe.

The current prevailing Chinese culture is a mixed of all the Han culture but predominantly northern or the Beijing/Shanghai type. Cantonese was the alternative dialect that was put up as the official Chinese language instead of Mandarin and the Chinese could all be speaking Cantonese. They are doing it not to suppress any minority or any dialect. It is a national effort at unification.

The intent and the result of what the Chinese did in China was never intended to suppress their minorities. The language and culture of their minorities are still flourishing at their own level. This is quite similar to what is happening here. You have official language but every racial group is free to practise what they want.

You are taking it too personally on some of the issues you mentioned in your own blog. I say again, relax.

I am a Hokien, and I feel that it is a lost if the language and its culture are lost. Either way, there are pros and cons. As a dialect and culture, the Hokiens are thriving in Fukien and Taiwan. They have the critical mass to keep it alive just like Cantonese in Hongkong and Kwantung.

Our mental capacity and time are limited and to comprehend everything, culture and language, is going to be a big tussle. When the world was just the kampong or a small town, keeping one's dialect and cultural traits are easy. The villages just survive in their little world.

If we want to engage the world, we have to adjust to make things easier for everyone.

Are Singapore's policies meant to marginalise the minorities, or for more integration and unity and to keep up with a smaller world?

Think about it cooly.

solo bear said...

OK. I am going to put LKY's racism aside and talk about race itself.

>>I don't agree with your interpretation of Han Chinese and Han Chinese culure.... . If you are a Hokien, you are a Han and not a minority tribe.
>>

Disagree. I am a Peranakan Chinese, and I am considered distinct from the Han Chinese majority. I will tell you why.

1. As a Peranakan, my family members used to speak to each other in Malay (when I was a kid). Do Hans do that?

2. Peranakan food is distinct from other types of Chinese food. As a Han, is your grandmother's favourite dish "babi pongteh"?

3. Peranakan women dress like this. Do Han women dress up that way?

4. This one is going to hurt. Peranakans traditionally feel more comfortable mixing with Malays than mixing with Han Chinese because of the common language they speak. Do Hans feel the same way about Malays - ie feeling more comfortable mixing with Malays more than with fellow Chinese?

If all the answers above are "no", how can you say that all Hokkiens (Peranakan like me, included) are Han?

My forefathers have been practising a culture that is totally alien to Han majority.

As for discrimination against ethnic Chinese groups, I am not talking about the tyrant Emperor Qin Shih Huang more than two thousand years ago. I am talking about the Singapore scene today.

PS - take a look at point 4. Maybe that will help you understand why I feel for the Malays in a way, much more "empathically" than the average Han Chinese feels.

Anonymous said...

The lonely bear is fighting his own shadow.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Solo Bear,

You can have your own world view of things and your own definition of things.

As for definition of what is a Han, what is a Peranakan and what is a Malay, I think the best person to discuss such academic constructs is Matilah.

Even when the Hans were at the peak of their power, they never despise the minorities or other nationalities. When they came to Malacca, they brought a Princess to inter marry with the local leaders. You got Cheng Ho to thank for what you are today. If they were racists, there would not be peranakans around today.

Would they bother about chap cheng when they married a princess with the locals? It was the furthest thing in their minds. Did they imposed their culture on the locals? No, the culture of peranakan evolved through free inter marriages without pressure from the 'racist' Han Chinese or the Malay rulers. It was a natural social process. Right?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Oh, let me pose to you the scenario of a Chinaman masuk Melayu. So is he a Malay now?

In your definition, an Indian who speaks Chinese, eats Chinese food and dressed up like a Chinese is now a Chinese? If that is true, most Singaporeans are really westerners, speaking English as mother tongue, practising western cultures and religion, even changing to western names, and understand more of western history than their Asian history. And their lifestyle, thinking are all westerners. So they are neither Chinese, Indian nor Malays.

Or are they still Han Chinese, Indians or Malays ethnically and bilogically?

The Singaporean Chinese can't be Han Chinese, like you are no longer Han Chinese. So how can you say that these non Han Chinese are discriminating against you and your culture?

Anonymous said...

Should the Kheks accused MM for discriminating against the Kheks by promoting Mandarin and Han Culture and not Khek culture?

solo bear said...

>>As for definition of what is a Han, what is a Peranakan and what is a Malay, I think the best person to discuss such academic constructs is Matilah.
>>

I am not talking about constructs. I am talking about a culture my forefathers practised for generations, which is distinct and different from Han majority.

>>Even when the Hans were at the peak of their power, they never despise the minorities or other nationalities.
>>

I am not going into that area again. If you want to talk racism, we talk about LKY's racist stance.

>>Then they came to Malacca, they brought a Princess to inter marry with the local leaders. You got Cheng Ho to thank for what you are today.
>>

Oh, incidentally, Admiral Zheng He was a Muslim. That didn't make him less Chinese, did it?

>>Would they bother about chap cheng when they married a princess with the locals?
>>

Chap cheng is the term used by Sg Hans on Peranakans some 30 years ago. It was not used by the Malaccan locals on Peranakans.

Malaccans called Peranakans "baba", a respected and honorific term bestowed on a people the Malaccan locals respect. Unlike the racist LKY and PAPpy who think all Chinese must behave like Han Chinese.

The chap cheng term no longer applies today, because about every bit of Peranakan culture has been wiped out. What Peranakan chap cheng kia is there left to be called a chap cheng today?

>>No, the culture of peranakan evolved through free inter marriages without pressure from the 'racist' Han Chinese or the Malay rulers. It was a natural social process. Right?
>>

My beef is the Sg govt, not the Han Chinese per se.

Why is Sg govt, under LKY, so racist, that it has to force all Chinese to take Chinese MT, hence wiping out Peranakan culture?

>>Oh, let me pose to you the scenario of a Chinaman masuk Melayu. So is he a Malay now?
In your definition, an Indian who speaks Chinese, eats Chinese food and dressed up like a Chinese is now a Chinese?
>>

I am not talking about someone marrying a Malay or Indian, then adopting that respective culture.

I am talking about a WHOLE COMMUNITY evolving their own unique culture, distinct from the mainstream - like the Peranakans evolving their own unique culture, distinct from Han majority as well as other cultures, including Malay culture.

In case you do not know, Peranakans eat pork, which Malays don't. Peranakans are also mostly Toaists, and some even worship Admiral Zheng He.

The Admiral himself was a Muslim. If he were alive today, he would die twice over with a heart attack, knowing his followers are worshipping him instead of Allah.

Here, I would like to ask you to be a little more sensitive. By denying the Peranakans are a unique ethnic minority group within the majority Han Chinese, you are actually saying that the Peranakan Culture is nothing to you.

This is the exact issue I have with racist LKY and the racist PAP. They do not see that there are ethnic minority Chinese who have their own unique cultures. By assuming that we are all Chinese, and treating us as one homogenous race, all traces of ethnic minority cultures within the wide Chinese race is lost.

Of course, some may say why don't Peranakans go back to Malaysia (Malacca) if they want to see Peranakan culture practised.

My answer is the same as the Malay you asked to go back to his kampung in Malaysia.

This is the home of Peranakan Singaporeans. Why should they go back to Malacca, Malaysia?

===

To the anon at 11.06, who got barred by Google at my site and is trying to get attention here,

Hey doc, I told you I have yet to see just one intellectual post from you, didn't I?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Solo Bear,

From an individual point of view, I too kpkb a lot on many issues. But I also understand why some things were done by the political leaders. I agree with some, disagree with some. As long as the policies are done not for selfish or self serving reasons, I may disagree, kpkb, but have to accept that some policies would be done by the rulers of the day.

Peranakan culture is not the only minority culture that is disappearing. The cultures of the majority Hokiens, Teochews, Cantonese, Kheks etc are also disappearing. The next few generations will be mandarin speakers or English speakers.

The govt does not do what Emperor Chin did. The minority culture are still free to survive in their own enclaves. It is an emotional thing but given the hand of cards, I think it is the right way to go forward.

The Peranakan culture is a sub culture of two main cultures. Unfortunately it does not embrace the best of either. For that it could not rise above either main culture to establish itself as a better alternative. Also, it does not have a critical mass or does it have an economic value to provide the motivation for its perpetuation as a national culture.

I have quoted Cantonese which was proposed to be the national language of China. It lost out as the base was smaller. But Cantonese still exists among the Cantonese, and Pernakan culture can continue to exist among the Peranakans.

As a national policy, the govt would have to promote only the major languages to be used, not so much about the culture. How is the govt going to promote every culture at the same time and bring about a more egalitarian social, eocnomic and political framework that is efficient and functional for all the different races and cultures?

My suggestion is not to take it personally. LKY is also a Khek and a Peranakan. He too sacrificed the minority interest in him for the common good. And he chose 4 languages with English as the main language. This is definitely not racism.

Why are you so angry with him and call him a racist? To you it is absolutely right to say so. I don't agree and I think many people who disagree with his policies would also not agree with your trend of argument.

Anonymous said...

baba siao

Anonymous said...

better than pedo siao

solo bear said...

As far as this MT issue that requires all Chinese to take Chinese, I have more or less given up because it is a lost cause.

However, whenever LKY mouths about integration this and that, it brings back a whole lot of can of worms from his stale history book.

After all, it was the Peranakans who led the way even before LKY became PM. The Peranakans were the only group of people who could speak English, Chinese and Malay all at once, hence, they were the bridge between the Brit govt and the various major races not only in Singapore but in Malaysia as well.

The late Goh KS was a Peranakan. So were Gan Eng Seng and Tan Tock Seng. There's so much valuable history tied to the Peranakans. Then with one stroke of the pen from LKY, due to the racist MT policy, the Peranakan culture is wiped out.

So for hypocrite LKY to talk about integration, when there exists a group of people who demonstrated how it's done, yet he erased this group's history and culture, only to say that we have not integrated as a nation, I think he is talking big BS.

The irony is that he himself is a Peranakan. LKY pretends to be a passionate Chinese Culture promoter (but we know he's not, bcos as you mentioned if he was, he wouldn't have shut down Nantah), but instead end up being a racist, hammering not only the Malays, but erasing all other cultures and races, including Chinese minorities.

But heck, Singapore is just a small dot.

Today, I am more concerned about Mid East affairs. Occasionally I am concerned about what's happening with American-China-Russian affairs.

What happens in the world will affect Singapore. But what happens to Singapore, the world still will carry on. After all, we truly are just a tiny dot.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Solo Bear,

The mother tongue issue has impacted a lot of people of different dialects and peranakan is included. Many children that did not speak Mandarin at home were adversely affected. And many were forced to migrate for the good of their children.

The policy could be better handled even if it meant well, to plug in to the wider Mandarin speaking world. We all sacrificed our real mother tongue at home for another language for economic efficacy.

Sure a big price has been paid for that and the consequences will be felt in later years, good or bad.

The babas and nonyas were the pioneer immigrants from China to this land. And with the head start, many of the early successful people were the babas. So were the Eurasians and the Indians, or anyone who were educated in English. They did contributed a lot to the building of early Singapore.

History has taken a different course just like the fading of the empires, from Portugese, Spanish, Dutch, the English and now the Americans. The new wave will wash away the old.

solo bear said...

>>History has taken a different course just like the fading of the empires, from Portugese, Spanish, Dutch, the English and now the Americans. The new wave will wash away the old.
>>

Wishing you a Happy and Prosperous Lunar NY.

Yes, new wave will take over the old. Right now I see the new wave as:

1. China dominating the world economy.

2. Russia taking over US as the world's military superpower.

3. Islam taking over the West in setting the political tone in the Mid East and perhaps beyond, into Europe.

4. Western influence diminished due to the weakened economic, military and political power.

Anonymous said...

This late rejoinder is to thank Redbean for the complimentary remark made on 01 Feb 2011 at 09:27 hrs.

Me concurs with Sol Bear that 'patriot' is a common nick used by different people. However, me never in my wildest interpretation of my comment here understands how he linked me to a doc and a spammer that had persistently spammed his blog as well as 'My Singapore News' as he claimed.

Me was at Bears' Blog, stumbling across it as me trawled the Net, early when his/her writings appeared. May i say my comments were/are apparently straightforward and contained little or no personal issue with others. Me prefers to comment based on reasonableness and veracity.

Though it appears that Solo Bear could have had many counter points of view from other netizens, me sees no cause or reason for him to be paranoid and over suspicious of anyone responding to him. Me was/am not hurt nor harm by his suspicion on me, his misjudgement on me was not causing me any damage. In fact his comments were liked compliments to a lowly educated old folk.

One reason for me to visit his blog was/is because me feels he has a good reading of the US History and Leaderships. The topics he covers are wide ranging and there is much me could learn there. Occasionally, me did put in some comments, but not spam the Site as Bear claimed. Me never understand the need to spam nor do I understand why others did and doing them. It's too childish and not honourable.

Btw, like to say that it was good discussion here and participants here have got the opportunity to know the Subjects of Race, Ethnicity and Culture more.

patriot

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